Someone sugested on the comments thread about doing informal polls here and I thought it will be a good way for us to have some fun with it. What should we have for next week's poll? Any ideas? - Hari
driving more than one hour for a road game is stupid. how can you be fresh after being in a car for 3 hours and being up earlier than usual just sitting in one position. teams are st. louis, wisconsin and indiana should come to chicago. we always have to go to their grounds where they practice 24 hours a day. so obviously they have an advantage. 90 percent of the teams in this league are from chicago. we should automatically be the ones hosting. moreover, when you go to their grounds, they dont even provide water. in milwaukee we had to bring our own water. forget food, they didnt even have water for us. why should i go waste my day over there? they can come to chicago next time.
----------- 90 percent of the teams in this league are from chicago. we should automatically be the ones hosting. moreover, when you go to their grounds, they dont even provide water. in milwaukee we had to bring our own water. forget food, they didnt even have water for us. why should i go waste my day over there? they can come to chicago next time. --------
Which Milwaukee team was this, BTW? Ive umpired both Milwaukee United and Milwaukee Cricket Club several times over the past two seasons, and they have *always* provided food for everyone (home team, visitors, and umpires). I believe theyve provided water too - but I cant even remember if I bothered to check that, many teams bring their own gatorade etc. However the food has always been provided - sometimes catered Indian food, sometimes Subway, sometimes pizza. But it has *always* been there - and this is from the experience of maybe 10 games in Milwaukee over the past couple of seasons.
Second - its all very well to say "they should come to Chicago"... we dont exactly have *that* many grounds in Chicago. Every team that is in our league and is outside the Chicagoland area is coming in with its own ground - how many of the 40 or so Chicagoland teams are providing their own ground, pray tell? The only reason most of these "away teams" play most of the matches on their home grounds is because thats the only way for the league to fulfill its schedule every year. 28 extra games in Chicago from the 2 Milwaukee teams itself would be impossible for the league to find grounds for (leave alone another 42 in Peoria, another 14 in Purdue, another 28 in Springfield, another 14 in Madison, another 14 in Urbana, another 14 in St Louis... and so on).
And frankly home-ground advantage can work both ways. Yes its an advantage for the home team in the regular season - but it is a *huge* disadvantage for those teams when they are in the playoffs. They are all coming to play in Washington Park without any practice or regular experience of Washington Park conditions. Last year Milwaukee and Peoria were both ranked in the Top Four of the regular season, and Madison was in the Top Four in Division Two. All 3 lost their first playoff game in Washtington Park - the change in conditions is very hard to deal with in a playoff match. I think a lot of these contending "away teams" would be very happy to get 3-4 games in Washington Park every season, so they could be used to the conditions before the playoffs roll around... but again, due to lack of grounds leading to scheduling difficulties, they often dont get to play a single game in Washington Park during the regular season.
Anyway, many Division One teams are spoiled in this respect :-) Complaining about travelling all the way to Milwaukee to play a match? Wait until youve had to travel to Collinsville and back in a single day for a game in Division Two.. thats a good 7+ hours of travel in one day, plus a game in between, making for a solid 15/16-hour day (unlike St Louis, Collinsville has always had only one side in Division Two - thus there was never an option of going for the entire weekend as it was in St Louis until this season). Milwaukee by comparison is a pleasant little stroll :-)
(Or how about having to wake up in the wee hours of the morning, and drive a solid 3+ hours... and *then* having to be hit all around the park by Satha? Almost every Division Two team has experienced that fate in the past 3 seasons too :-) Heck, some poor folk 3 years ago had to drive 3+ hours, get hit around by Satha, then drive back... and then the next week drive those same 3+ hours again, this time only to be hit around by Tarunreddy on the very same ground before driving back again! Now *that* was a true double-whammy :-) The only consolation was that you could spend the second long drive back wondering which hammering you took was worse :-)
there is now doubt that satha should be in LA open. he has done his part for years and years. it is the arrogance of the selectors haa kept him away. i think it is about time selectors give some explanation on how they pick these players.
--------- there is now doubt that satha should be in LA open. he has done his part for years and years. it is the arrogance of the selectors haa kept him away. i think it is about time selectors give some explanation on how they pick these players. ---------
I dont think its fair to allege "selectorial arrogance" - but it is probably true IMHO that Satha suffers due to a couple of reasons. First, he is not in Division One - and there is a semi-understandable bias towards Division One, with people thinking the best players are playing in that group. Second, he is not in Chicago - and since the majority of teams are in Chicago, most people dont get to actually *see* him. This can make a big impact too - if you play at Washtington Park and 5 other teams are present, or at Hanover with people around watching, someone who is hitting fours and sixes and batting with style and ease really stands out even from the sidelines.
This "outside Chicago" thing affects others too - but not as much if they are playing in Division One IMHO. In Division One most teams play each other (only 2 "byes" a year), so an outstanding bowler like Asif from Milwaukee, for example, gets seen by almost everyone in the division in the first year itself (and then a second time the next year). In Division Two there are 30 teams and 14 games - thus more than half the teams in Division Two itself dont get to play Satha every year! If they are lucky, they may avoid him 2 years in a row - and then they too know him only from scorecards, and not by "the evidence of the eyes". The only ones who truly know and remember him well are those who have suffered at his hands - but they make up less than one-third of the teams in the league (and an even smaller percentage of the "selectorial panel" probably).
This same problem, IMHO, also affected TarunReddy - who destroyed attacks similarly in Division Two a couple of years ago. He then graduated and moved to California - and he is currently openign the batting for Southern California in the LA Open, as well as playing for the Western Region in the US Nationals. In our league people didnt find out how good he was until too late, IMHO. A similar case could be made for Girish Kamthe of Purdue - one of the best allrounders in the entire league in his only season, but played outside of Chicago and in Division Two as well.
That said, it should be pointed out that, despite the above "disadvantages", Satha *was* asked to go to the LA Open this year - but he declined, as he had a prior committment this weekend. He may have been recognized a little late - in my purely personal opinion he could have been invited for last years LA Open squad itself, maybe - but things *were* corrected this year, and he was thus going to be in the "MCC First XI" this season. It is just a pity that he couldnt make it, because IMHO he would have strengthened our team's batting even more.
Well as such since we are playing in big league, travelling should not be a problem. But most of the travel games should be scheduled on Saturday only. Especially those which require more than 2 hours for one way journey. Petty reasons should not be allowed as an excuse for having games on Sunday. Most of the people playing are working and none of them are professional cricketers who keep on playing all the time and are getting paid for that. Like if Chicago land team one goes to Collinsville, which hosts all the matches only on Sundays ... the travelling team wont come back to Chicago until past midnight on Sunday, which is in fact Monday early morning. Again travelling would not be much a problem, but try to keep the away games on Saturday. I would like Sadiq or anybody from MCC Management to address this issue.
i am not a cricketeer myself but my father plays for one of the clubs and my opinon on traveling to other cities is well, I agree with anonymos that traveling games should all be played on a saturday. I enjoy traveling to St. Louis and other parts of the midwest so other than that the MCC should keep things the same.
We can always talk about Batting/Bowling perfomances(by now most of the MCC members know who are best batsmen or bowlers we have), but let's not forget about having the poll on best fielder or keeper.
We can always talk about Batting/Bowling perfomances(by now most of the MCC members know who are best batsmen or bowlers we have), but let's not forget about having the poll on best fielder or keeper.
With 43 votes counted, more than 75% prefer to drive no more than 3 hours one way!! Granted that this is only an informal poll, but still, I think that is an overwhelming majority agreeing on something.
I strongly favor the league's expansion. But, we need to look in to more grounds that can help keep the driving to no more than 2.5 to 3 hours each way.
I have a game this Sunday at Collinsville and I'm not looking forward to getting back around 1 AM on Monday. In fact we barely have 8 guys willing to do that trip at this point. I really hope that we can all find an acceptable solution to this soon.
Satha must prove himself against Division I opposition. Only then we can tell if he should be in the best XI. Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I. Look at last years Division I winner Perdue University. They were far superior than anyother team in Division II and blew out pretty much every team they faced for hte last two years. But they really aren't talented enough to compete against the best of division I as can be seen by their record. I know Mikwaukee United performed well last year, but they had picked up a lot of new players. Frankly speaking, I don't think Satha should have played in this years LA open. As great a player has he might be, I can't say that he is better than some of our other batsman like Sohail and Kiran unless i see him play against great bowlers.
>Division II is not even close to >being as competitive as Division >I. Look at last years Division I >winner Perdue University. They >were far superior than anyother >team in Division II and blew out >pretty much every team they faced >for hte last two years. But they >really aren't talented enough to >compete against the best of >division I as can be seen by >their record.
I do not want to get into a war of words here. But I just wish to say this: whoever you are, I am sure you havent seen us play or know much about our club. So please refrain from posting such derogatory comments without full and proper information.
Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I--- i guess this is the attitude of the MOST OF THE "WE KNOW ALL" DIVISION I PLAYERs. come down here and find it yourself. but i got to give one thing to division I teams. i dont know about cricket but they would definitely be better in fencing.
There are 3,4 teams in Div. 2 that Div. 1 level and there are probably 2,3 teams in Div. 1 that are Div. 2 level. Other than that, there is a huge gap in the level of cricket being played in the two leagues. The doubters should just wait for the results of the night tournament where Div. 2 teams get whooped every year by Div. 1 teams.
Division I winner Perdue University. They were far superior than anyother team in Division II and blew out pretty much every team they faced for hte last two years. But they really aren't talented enough to compete against the best of division I as can be seen by their record. I know Mikwaukee United performed well last year, but they had picked up a lot of new players
First thing - Purdue is one of the better teams in the league. I have seen them play consistently over the past couple of years. Since they rely a lot on student players, it can work both ways for them sometimes. I think calling them 'not talented' just shows ignorance and lack of cricketing sense.
Second thing - Milwaukee United languished in Div 2 for so many years. If you look at the record, they always were in the top 4 in div 2 in the last five years. The reason Milwaukee United did well last year in Div 1 is not because it got 'LOT OF NEW PLAYERS' . The same div 2 team a year before qualified for Div 1 play offs and went as far as Div 1 Semis (being a Div 2 team)beating top Div 1 teams. Please look at the score cards and rosters to find out for yourself.
----------- Frankly speaking, I don't think Satha should have played in this years LA open. As great a player has he might be, I can't say that he is better than some of our other batsman like Sohail and Kiran unless i see him play against great bowlers. ----------
Again, Satha played for Canada a few years ago - and Canada is almost always a better team than the USA is. How many players are there in our MCC Division One who are good enough to play for the USA? Probably none (or maybe one, Shahid). Certainly not any pure bowlers IMHO - Shahid may make it as an allrounder, however. And probably not any pure batsmen either.
It is this sort of attitude above which also leads to good players not being recognized in our league sometimes. TarunReddy is a prime example - he played in our league, and pretty much nobody heard of him or gave him any recognition because he was a Division Two guy. He graduated and moved to Los Angeles - and within 3 months he was in the Northern California team, then in the California team, and before the season ended he was playing for Central-West region in the nationals (which has historically been a better team than our Central-East team has been in USA Cricket). Maybe he wasnt *the* best batsman in our league, but clearly he was one of the best while he was here - but due to the attitude above that "Div2 is very weak and so doesnt count", he received no recognition either. It wasnt right then, and it isnt right now, IMHO.
---------- First thing - Purdue is one of the better teams in the league. I have seen them play consistently over the past couple of years. Since they rely a lot on student players, it can work both ways for them sometimes. I think calling them 'not talented' just shows ignorance and lack of cricketing sense. ----------
Actually, if Milwaukee CC is supposed to have "picked up lots of new players" and so their performance last year was disregarded... shouldnt the fact that Purdue *lost* a lot of good players also count for something? :-) Over the past 2 years Purdue has lost both its captains for instance - and just in this season they are missing their Top Two Rungetters from last year I think. And, of course, its still early in the year - a 2-3 record doesnt neccesarily eliminate you from playoff contention in our league after all :-)
Phoenix, BTW, also came up from Division Two - and they have 3 wins already this year. They have beaten St Louis and Rogers Park - both past champions of Division One, who have been in Division One their entire history. And Phoenix actually only lost to United (last years semifinalists) by 15 runs, and even managed to bowl Pak Gym out for 150 before losing, which is really a pretty creditable performance for a new team in Division One against the rampaging powerhouses.
----------- Second thing - Milwaukee United languished in Div 2 for so many years. If you look at the record, they always were in the top 4 in div 2 in the last five years. The reason Milwaukee United did well last year in Div 1 is not because it got 'LOT OF NEW PLAYERS' . The same div 2 team a year before qualified for Div 1 play offs and went as far as Div 1 Semis (being a Div 2 team)beating top Div 1 teams. Please look at the score cards and rosters to find out for yourself. ------------
Milwaukee United is a good example, actually. In 2003 they had 9 wins in Division Two. In 2004 they had 10 wins in Division Two. In 2005 they came to Division One... and had 10 wins in Division One. Not exactly what youd call a big drop-off in performance when they moved up!
Teams change every year - Milwaukee United picked up 3 or 4 new players last year, its true, but they had also lost their best bowler and their most consistent batsman from the previous year. Overall they may have been a bit stronger, but it wasnt a huge change - most of their roster has been the same for a good 4 or 5 years. And besides, as you point out above, when Milwaukee United was still a Division Two team, they came into the Division One playoffs (in 2004) and upset both St Louis Kutis and Wildcats in those playoffs, going all the way to the Division One semifinals before losing to the Challengers! This year Milwaukee United has again lost their best bowler from last year (Jassi), but so far this season their performance hasnt been any worse.
This is one reason I think it may not be a bad idea to still have that "2 Div2 teams moving to Div1 playoffs in the same season" format that we used to. That way we can see how Div2 is competing against Div1 head to head. Its sad that that format had to be abandoned right after a Div2 team had beaten a Div1 playoff team for the first time ever in our league. Not to say this would happen often - Div1 is still obviously the stronger division, and so the above would happen quite rarely - but it would still be quite interesting to see how it played out on the cricket field.
Also, BTW, 20-20 is hardly the right forum to compare Div1 and Div2 teams - it is a whole different ballgame. Very probably all of Phoenix, Milwaukee United and/or Purdue may do poorly in 20-20, but much better in the 40 or 45 over game. This is mostly because, IMHO, they are generally younger and fitter than many teams in Div1 - and the longer a game is, the more their fitness and running between wickets has a chance to have an impact. 20-20 never really brings fitness into play at all (except in LA, when youre playing two 20-20 games back to back on consecutive days in intense heat - which physically hurt a lot of our players even this season, since nobody is used to going through that sort of physical strain; it contributed a fair bit to our lowered performance on Day2 in LA, in my opinion).
yes that would be great to bring back the format of involving div II teams into playoffs against div I. it's a bit of suprising why we stopped it all of a sudden? hmmm let me guess :)
bringing back the playoff format involving division II teams into the playoffs against division I teams is a good idea, but this would be extremely hard to schedule since the Division I playoffs would have to start after the Division II playoffs. Secondly, it is a bit unfair for the division I teams to be knocked out by a team that really has nothing to lose. I am not saying that Division II don't deserve a shot at the title, its just that it would be unfair and it would take the value out of the Division II title. I must say that both of last years Division II teams definately deserve a spot in the Division I league. If given the opportunity both Phoenix CC and Purdue CC would have done well in the Division I playoffs. Not to forget IIT, who also lost a heartbreaker to Phoenix in the semi-finals after having a great regular reason where they finished 1st ahead of both Phoenix and Purdue. I wouldn't have been surprised if one of these teams, especially last years Purdue team upset some of our top guns in Division I. That said, I must also stress that Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I. Agreed, the top 6-8 teams of Division II are extremely competitive, some of them are most definately better than a few of our teams in Division I. But if you look at the overall strength of division II it is considerably weaker than Division I. I would suggest that we should probably move the bottom four teams from division I to division II. This would motivate all the teams from both divisions to perform better. And we should probably expand our Division III league a bit more. I can see atleast 6-7 teams from Divison II that will be better off playing 30-30 rather than our regular 40 over games. That would be best for our league and it would also make Division II a lot more competitive.
"I can see atleast 6-7 teams from Divison II that will be better off playing 30-30 rather than our regular 40 over games. That would be best for our league and it would also make Division II a lot more competitive. "
Are you refering to the team Sath scored 223* against? ;) poor chaps... such games often take place in Div. 2 and new records are made from time to time because div. 2 has some really strong teams and then some really weak ones. That is because div. 2 is open to anyone who wants to enter a team which brings down the level of competition. I would suggest demoting the bottom 10 teams of div. 2 to the 30-30 league.
I would also suggest that the bottom 4 teams from div. 1 be demoted to div. 2 and the top 4 from div. 2 (the semi-finalists) be promoted to div. 1 at the end of every season in order to keep both leagues competitive.
"I would also suggest that the bottom 4 teams from div. 1 be demoted to div. 2 and the top 4 from div. 2 (the semi-finalists) be promoted to div. 1 at the end of every season in order to keep both leagues competitive."
Excellent suggestion. Also move the last 6-8 teams to division III. Normally what has been happening that the last spotted teams during the end of the season or mid season, starts giving walk overs & it brings down the moral of the game.
I am not sure if anybody has noticed, but i want to bring to management's attention.
In DIV 2, team Rockers have given walkover all matches except the first game. Also, i see that they are participating in the 30-30 division. I am not sure if both are same teams or not, but whichever team has Rockers in playing Schedule for sure gets 4 points if Rockers have already decided not to play in DIV2.
This is unfair to other teams incase playoffs depends on crucial points.
As i had suggested earlier (anonymous 10:59) :) we should probably have move more teams around the three divisions to keep the games more competitive. The situation with the Rockers is unfortunate. But more than likely, they would have lost all their games had they played n e ways. I hope management doesnt mind us giving them all these suggestions. They have done a great job with our league and I think its great that they've created these 'blogs'. It gives everyone a chance to share their views, suggestions and frustration :) Amit
"If Phoenix or Perdue make it to the playoffs this year, watch out div I, for some major upsets!!!! "
Let see,Phoenix got all-out for 88 against Pak Gymkhana, and Pak Gymkhana scored 275 against Purdue. I wonder if Pak Gymkhana would really be "watching out" for either of these teams.
We're watching out for everyone after losing last year's final having scored 306. Phoenix did well to get 88 (ask Milwaukee .. 24 a.o. n all). But cricket is the game of uncertainties - on a given day anyone can beat anyone.
Besides Pak Gym, two other teams, Challengers and Milwaukee United are unbeaten as well... St. Louis CC has also been in very good form so far. I am looking forward to Pak gym's encounter with those three teams.
"Besides Pak Gym, two other teams, Challengers and Milwaukee United are unbeaten as well... St. Louis CC has also been in very good form so far. I am looking forward to Pak gym's encounter with those three teams."
I think all those matches are in consecutive weeks - talk about scheduling!
Raheel, from your previous comment it looks as though you aren't really praising Phoenix, just braging about how well your team has done. Anyways, Pak Gymkhana is a hell of a team and you have every right in the world to talk like that. Just make sure you guys back up all this talk in the playoffs :) peace Amit
bringing back the playoff format involving division II teams into the playoffs against division I teams is a good idea, but this would be extremely hard to schedule since the Division I playoffs would have to start after the Division II playoffs. -----------
This is true - and this is why it was abandoned I think. It doesnt have to start *after* the playoffs neccessarily - but the first 2 teams of Div2 have to be decided already. It basically delays everything by a week - the format was last used two years ago.
The way it works is: 1st Saturday: Div2, 5-12 play 1st Sunday: Div2, 1-4 vs winners of 5-12 (thus being in the Top 4 gives you a day rest, which makes earning the Top 4 spot important, as it should be IMHO).
2nd Saturday: Div2 semis 2nd Sunday: Div2 finalists, plus Div1 5-10, play each other to determine Div1 Quarters.
So, what it does is delay the Div1 QF by exactly one week - pushing the whole playoffs one week deeper into October.
Opinions vary on whether this is pushing it too late or not, weather-wise. The other thing is, in a 17-team Division One, do you want 10 teams to make the playoffs, or is 8 a sufficient number? These are the reasons why this format was scrapped probably.
My own personal opinion (which, along with 3-bucks-and-a-quarter will buy you a gallon of gasoline).. I think we should start the season a week earlier, or even 2 weeks earlier. Maybe even play one of the long weekends, if we have to (every team has 1 or 2 bye-weeks in addition to long-weekends anyway; else, have no byes other than long weekends if need be)... and then we can play this format without pushing the season any longer than it currently is. But again, thats purely my opinion... and you know what they say about opinions :-)
--------- Anon said:
Secondly, it is a bit unfair for the division I teams to be knocked out by a team that really has nothing to lose. I am not saying that Division II don't deserve a shot at the title, its just that it would be unfair and it would take the value out of the Division II title. --------
This part I dont agree with at all - what is this "have nothing to lose" bit? Its a playoff, everyone has something to lose! When Milwaukee United came thru the Div2 playoffs into the Div1 playoffs, they didnt play without anything to lose - they were trying to win the entire league, and were probably as disappointed when they lost (in the semis) as anyone else who lost that year in the playoffs. Heck, they ended up playing the Div2 final in a back-to-back game when tired... but they had chosen to have the Div1 semis on Saturday, because they gave it highest priority!
Besides, it isnt like the Div2 teams are being given an advantage anyway - they are the *only* teams who would be playing the Div1 pre-quarters as a back-to-back game, having played the Div2 semis the day before! That is far more of a disadvantage, in my opinion, than any possible advantage provided by "playing without anything to lose".
"I can see atleast 6-7 teams from Divison II that will be better off playing 30-30 rather than our regular 40 over games. That would be best for our league and it would also make Division II a lot more competitive. "
Anon 2 said:
because div. 2 has some really strong teams and then some really weak ones. That is because div. 2 is open to anyone who wants to enter a team which brings down the level of competition. I would suggest demoting the bottom 10 teams of div. 2 to the 30-30 league.
I would also suggest that the bottom 4 teams from div. 1 be demoted to div. 2 and the top 4 from div. 2 (the semi-finalists) be promoted to div. 1 at the end of every season in order to keep both leagues competitive. ------------ -----------
Hey guys please put your name - or some sort of "handle" if you wish, this Anon1 and Anon2 business is getting difficult :-)
As for the above...
Again, purely my opinion (which, along with 5 bucks, will get you a grande latte frappe with caramel swirl at a speciality barista)...
Our biggest problem is grounds - we dont have enough grounds to go fully to 3 divisions I think, which would entail a huge increase in the number of games. Also, the current 30-30 is not so much a Div3 as it is a completely different tournament - thus anyone can play in it (even Div1 players), and it is based only in Chicagoland with no travel involved etc. It is also a half-day game, thus 2 games are played on a ground in a day. It is a whole different animal.
Now in an ideal world, if we did have enough grounds to make 3 divisions and consequently host a whole lot of more games etc... again, purely my personal opinion is as follows:
Last year, we had 51 teams, of which about 18 were in Div1 and 33 I think were in Div2? If we had lots of grounds, what we could potentially do:
1) Cut down Div1 to 17 teams, by attrition - an extra demotion one year, after announcing it at the start of the year so everyone knows about it.
2) Look at maybe 3 years worth of "regular season" results in Div2, so as to be completely fair to everyone, looking at consistency and not just 1 bad year etc... and after doing that, split the remaining 34 teams into Div2 and Div3, both containing 17 teams each, with the "cumulative 3 years worth bottom 17 teams" going down to Div3.
3) Start the season 2 weeks earlier, and if neccessary cut down one of the bye weeks, or else play on one long weekend (letting the team choose their long weekend)... and thus, with more time available, go back to the old days of a 16-game schedule. Thus *everyone* in each division plays *everyone else* - no more lucky draws, no more byes where one may escape playing Satha one year (or even two), everyone plays everyone head to head, and *then* the real best teams to go the playoffs. With our weather a couple games are often lost to rain, and there are 14 games to start with, thus you can sometimes get only 12 cricket games all year... and then in Div2 you dont play half the teams, thus leaving too much to chance for the playoffs (a lucky draw and easy strength of schedule enables you to get to the playoffs quite easily sometimes) etc.
4) Because you are taking a single Div2 and splitting it into Div2 and Div3... allow plenty of movement back and forth, plenty of opportunity for upward mobility. Thus, allow 4 teams to be demoted from Div2 to Div3 every year, and 4 teams to be promoted from Div3 to Div2 the same year. In a few years teams will find their own level - and then you can go back to 2-team promotions and relegations if you want to.
5) Iam not so sure myself that changing the Div2 to Div1 promotions to 4 teams is neccesarily a great solution right away. However, this is not hard to fix... lets allow actual play on a cricket field to decide it, rather than anyones opinion of the strengths and weaknesses of Div1 and Div2! Lets allow the first 2 teams to be automatically promoted (and the bottom 2 from Div2 to be automatically demoted), and then, the two semifinalists of Div2 and the 3rd and 4th from bottom teams of Div1 get to play off at the end of the year against each other, with the winners going to Div1 and the losers going to Div2! (In English soccers promotions and demotions, this is a very common phenomenon - a "relegation game" it is called, and it usually provides the most hard-fought and best playoff game of the season!) Last year IIT finished #3 in Div2, and Hoffmann Estates finished 3rd from bottom in Div1... that might have been a heck of a match if they had played each other, to decide who played in Div1 this season! This would also have the added benefit of keeping everyone's intensity level up all year - nobody would want to finish in the Bottom Four in Div1 and risk possible demotion, and so would continue to play very hard even if the playoffs were out of reach (last year, once the playoffs were out of reach, a couple of teams played with only 9 people a few times - that should never happen, if it can be avoided).
(Scheduling this relegation game will actually be quite easy - scheduling extra playoff games are difficult as there is no time and grounds at WP are occupied, and putting Div2 finalists into a Div1 playoff takes an extra week; however, once the playoffs reach semifinal and final stage, only 2 grounds are being occupied at most. Thus 2 grounds are empty on those days for any potential relegation game to be played, making this part actually quite easy for scheduling).
Anyway. All these things are, IMHO, for a utopian world - it all depends on the number of grounds, and if we have the capacity to increase the number of games played each year (and consequently the number of umpires, too ;-) Until we have enough grounds, not much can be done, really.But its still fun to think about the possibilities :-)
Sadiq bhai, I know this might not be possible realistically but shouldn't we 'test' new teams before they enter the MCC? I started playing in 2003 and there were about 16 teams in Div 1 and 20-something in Div 2. Already there are 40+ teams in Div 2 and there's a 30-30 league. With the # of grounds not increasing significantly and the problems with appointing umpires, should we let anyone play who pays the 2-grand entry fee?
42 comments:
Someone sugested on the comments thread about doing informal polls here and I thought it will be a good way for us to have some fun with it. What should we have for next week's poll? Any ideas? - Hari
I have one suggestion..."Who is the favourite to win this years Division I title?" Four options, (Milwaukee United, Pak Gymkhana, Challengers, Other)
driving more than one hour for a road game is stupid. how can you be fresh after being in a car for 3 hours and being up earlier than usual just sitting in one position. teams are st. louis, wisconsin and indiana should come to chicago. we always have to go to their grounds where they practice 24 hours a day. so obviously they have an advantage. 90 percent of the teams in this league are from chicago. we should automatically be the ones hosting. moreover, when you go to their grounds, they dont even provide water. in milwaukee we had to bring our own water. forget food, they didnt even have water for us. why should i go waste my day over there? they can come to chicago next time.
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90 percent of the teams in this league are from chicago. we should automatically be the ones hosting. moreover, when you go to their grounds, they dont even provide water. in milwaukee we had to bring our own water. forget food, they didnt even have water for us. why should i go waste my day over there? they can come to chicago next time.
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Which Milwaukee team was this, BTW? Ive umpired both Milwaukee United and Milwaukee Cricket Club several times over the past two seasons, and they have *always* provided food for everyone (home team, visitors, and umpires). I believe theyve provided water too - but I cant even remember if I bothered to check that, many teams bring their own gatorade etc. However the food has always been provided - sometimes catered Indian food, sometimes Subway, sometimes pizza. But it has *always* been there - and this is from the experience of maybe 10 games in Milwaukee over the past couple of seasons.
Second - its all very well to say "they should come to Chicago"... we dont exactly have *that* many grounds in Chicago. Every team that is in our league and is outside the Chicagoland area is coming in with its own ground - how many of the 40 or so Chicagoland teams are providing their own ground, pray tell? The only reason most of these "away teams" play most of the matches on their home grounds is because thats the only way for the league to fulfill its schedule every year. 28 extra games in Chicago from the 2 Milwaukee teams itself would be impossible for the league to find grounds for (leave alone another 42 in Peoria, another 14 in Purdue, another 28 in Springfield, another 14 in Madison, another 14 in Urbana, another 14 in St Louis... and so on).
And frankly home-ground advantage can work both ways. Yes its an advantage for the home team in the regular season - but it is a *huge* disadvantage for those teams when they are in the playoffs. They are all coming to play in Washington Park without any practice or regular experience of Washington Park conditions. Last year Milwaukee and Peoria were both ranked in the Top Four of the regular season, and Madison was in the Top Four in Division Two. All 3 lost their first playoff game in Washtington Park - the change in conditions is very hard to deal with in a playoff match. I think a lot of these contending "away teams" would be very happy to get 3-4 games in Washington Park every season, so they could be used to the conditions before the playoffs roll around... but again, due to lack of grounds leading to scheduling difficulties, they often dont get to play a single game in Washington Park during the regular season.
Anyway, many Division One teams are spoiled in this respect :-) Complaining about travelling all the way to Milwaukee to play a match? Wait until youve had to travel to Collinsville and back in a single day for a game in Division Two.. thats a good 7+ hours of travel in one day, plus a game in between, making for a solid 15/16-hour day (unlike St Louis, Collinsville has always had only one side in Division Two - thus there was never an option of going for the entire weekend as it was in St Louis until this season). Milwaukee by comparison is a pleasant little stroll :-)
(Or how about having to wake up in the wee hours of the morning, and drive a solid 3+ hours... and *then* having to be hit all around the park by Satha? Almost every Division Two team has experienced that fate in the past 3 seasons too :-) Heck, some poor folk 3 years ago had to drive 3+ hours, get hit around by Satha, then drive back... and then the next week drive those same 3+ hours again, this time only to be hit around by Tarunreddy on the very same ground before driving back again! Now *that* was a true double-whammy :-) The only consolation was that you could spend the second long drive back wondering which hammering you took was worse :-)
Sadiq
If satha is so good, why doesn't anyone send him to the L.A open?
there is now doubt that satha should be in LA open. he has done his part for years and years. it is the arrogance of the selectors haa kept him away. i think it is about time selectors give some explanation on how they pick these players.
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there is now doubt that satha should be in LA open. he has done his part for years and years. it is the arrogance of the selectors haa kept him away. i think it is about time selectors give some explanation on how they pick these players.
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I dont think its fair to allege "selectorial arrogance" - but it is probably true IMHO that Satha suffers due to a couple of reasons. First, he is not in Division One - and there is a semi-understandable bias towards Division One, with people thinking the best players are playing in that group. Second, he is not in Chicago - and since the majority of teams are in Chicago, most people dont get to actually *see* him. This can make a big impact too - if you play at Washtington Park and 5 other teams are present, or at Hanover with people around watching, someone who is hitting fours and sixes and batting with style and ease really stands out even from the sidelines.
This "outside Chicago" thing affects others too - but not as much if they are playing in Division One IMHO. In Division One most teams play each other (only 2 "byes" a year), so an outstanding bowler like Asif from Milwaukee, for example, gets seen by almost everyone in the division in the first year itself (and then a second time the next year). In Division Two there are 30 teams and 14 games - thus more than half the teams in Division Two itself dont get to play Satha every year! If they are lucky, they may avoid him 2 years in a row - and then they too know him only from scorecards, and not by "the evidence of the eyes". The only ones who truly know and remember him well are those who have suffered at his hands - but they make up less than one-third of the teams in the league (and an even smaller percentage of the "selectorial panel" probably).
This same problem, IMHO, also affected TarunReddy - who destroyed attacks similarly in Division Two a couple of years ago. He then graduated and moved to California - and he is currently openign the batting for Southern California in the LA Open, as well as playing for the Western Region in the US Nationals. In our league people didnt find out how good he was until too late, IMHO. A similar case could be made for Girish Kamthe of Purdue - one of the best allrounders in the entire league in his only season, but played outside of Chicago and in Division Two as well.
That said, it should be pointed out that, despite the above "disadvantages", Satha *was* asked to go to the LA Open this year - but he declined, as he had a prior committment this weekend. He may have been recognized a little late - in my purely personal opinion he could have been invited for last years LA Open squad itself, maybe - but things *were* corrected this year, and he was thus going to be in the "MCC First XI" this season. It is just a pity that he couldnt make it, because IMHO he would have strengthened our team's batting even more.
Sadiq
Well as such since we are playing in big league, travelling should not be a problem. But most of the travel games should be scheduled on Saturday only. Especially those which require more than 2 hours for one way journey. Petty reasons should not be allowed as an excuse for having games on Sunday. Most of the people playing are working and none of them are professional cricketers who keep on playing all the time and are getting paid for that. Like if Chicago land team one goes to Collinsville, which hosts all the matches only on Sundays ... the travelling team wont come back to Chicago until past midnight on Sunday, which is in fact Monday early morning. Again travelling would not be much a problem, but try to keep the away games on Saturday. I would like Sadiq or anybody from MCC Management to address this issue.
Thanks,
Alpesh
i am not a cricketeer myself but my father plays for one of the clubs and my opinon on traveling to other cities is well, I agree with anonymos that traveling games should all be played on a saturday.
I enjoy traveling to St. Louis and other parts of the midwest so other than that the MCC should keep things the same.
Keith McLaughlin
We can always talk about Batting/Bowling perfomances(by now most of the MCC members know who are best batsmen or bowlers we have), but let's not forget about having the poll on best fielder or keeper.
We can always talk about Batting/Bowling perfomances(by now most of the MCC members know who are best batsmen or bowlers we have), but let's not forget about having the poll on best fielder or keeper.
With 43 votes counted, more than 75% prefer to drive no more than 3 hours one way!! Granted that this is only an informal poll, but still, I think that is an overwhelming majority agreeing on something.
I strongly favor the league's expansion. But, we need to look in to more grounds that can help keep the driving to no more than 2.5 to 3 hours each way.
I have a game this Sunday at Collinsville and I'm not looking forward to getting back around 1 AM on Monday. In fact we barely have 8 guys willing to do that trip at this point. I really hope that we can all find an acceptable solution to this soon.
Satha must prove himself against Division I opposition. Only then we can tell if he should be in the best XI. Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I. Look at last years Division I winner Perdue University. They were far superior than anyother team in Division II and blew out pretty much every team they faced for hte last two years. But they really aren't talented enough to compete against the best of division I as can be seen by their record. I know Mikwaukee United performed well last year, but they had picked up a lot of new players.
Frankly speaking, I don't think Satha should have played in this years LA open. As great a player has he might be, I can't say that he is better than some of our other batsman like Sohail and Kiran unless i see him play against great bowlers.
By sohail, did you mean irfan sohail or sohail alvi?
sohail alvi afcorse....
Anonymous said...
>Division II is not even close to >being as competitive as Division >I. Look at last years Division I >winner Perdue University. They >were far superior than anyother >team in Division II and blew out >pretty much every team they faced >for hte last two years. But they >really aren't talented enough to >compete against the best of >division I as can be seen by >their record.
I do not want to get into a war of words here. But I just wish to say this: whoever you are, I am sure you havent seen us play or know much about our club. So please refrain from posting such derogatory comments without full and proper information.
Thanks
Ashwin
Purdue CC
"Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I" whoever wrote this must not know the game of cricket.
Watch out for Phoenix CC or Perdue CC as I have seen their game and how they play. Please think twice before you say something like this.
Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I--- i guess this is the attitude of the MOST OF THE "WE KNOW ALL" DIVISION I PLAYERs. come down here and find it yourself. but i got to give one thing to division I teams. i dont know about cricket but they would definitely be better in fencing.
some of the teams in div I know can't even compete in div III but somehow they manage to win 3-4 games per season and manage to hang in there.
How about a poll on league exclusivity rule? Should it be abolished?
There are 3,4 teams in Div. 2 that Div. 1 level and there are probably 2,3 teams in Div. 1 that are Div. 2 level. Other than that, there is a huge gap in the level of cricket being played in the two leagues. The doubters should just wait for the results of the night tournament where Div. 2 teams get whooped every year by Div. 1 teams.
Division I winner Perdue University. They were far superior than anyother team in Division II and blew out pretty much every team they faced for hte last two years. But they really aren't talented enough to compete against the best of division I as can be seen by their record. I know Mikwaukee United performed well last year, but they had picked up a lot of new players
First thing - Purdue is one of the better teams in the league. I have seen them play consistently over the past couple of years. Since they rely a lot on student players, it can work both ways for them sometimes. I think calling them 'not talented' just shows ignorance and lack of cricketing sense.
Second thing - Milwaukee United languished in Div 2 for so many years. If you look at the record, they always were in the top 4 in div 2 in the last five years. The reason Milwaukee United did well last year in Div 1 is not because it got 'LOT OF NEW PLAYERS' . The same div 2 team a year before qualified for Div 1 play offs and went as far as Div 1 Semis (being a Div 2 team)beating top Div 1 teams. Please look at the score cards and rosters to find out for yourself.
SK.
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Frankly speaking, I don't think Satha should have played in this years LA open. As great a player has he might be, I can't say that he is better than some of our other batsman like Sohail and Kiran unless i see him play against great bowlers.
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Again, Satha played for Canada a few years ago - and Canada is almost always a better team than the USA is. How many players are there in our MCC Division One who are good enough to play for the USA? Probably none (or maybe one, Shahid). Certainly not any pure bowlers IMHO - Shahid may make it as an allrounder, however. And probably not any pure batsmen either.
It is this sort of attitude above which also leads to good players not being recognized in our league sometimes. TarunReddy is a prime example - he played in our league, and pretty much nobody heard of him or gave him any recognition because he was a Division Two guy. He graduated and moved to Los Angeles - and within 3 months he was in the Northern California team, then in the California team, and before the season ended he was playing for Central-West region in the nationals (which has historically been a better team than our Central-East team has been in USA Cricket). Maybe he wasnt *the* best batsman in our league, but clearly he was one of the best while he was here - but due to the attitude above that "Div2 is very weak and so doesnt count", he received no recognition either.
It wasnt right then, and it isnt right now, IMHO.
Sadiq
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First thing - Purdue is one of the better teams in the league. I have seen them play consistently over the past couple of years. Since they rely a lot on student players, it can work both ways for them sometimes. I think calling them 'not talented' just shows ignorance and lack of cricketing sense.
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Actually, if Milwaukee CC is supposed to have "picked up lots of new players" and so their performance last year was disregarded... shouldnt the fact that Purdue *lost* a lot of good players also count for something? :-) Over the past 2 years Purdue has lost both its captains for instance - and just in this season they are missing their Top Two Rungetters from last year I think. And, of course, its still early in the year - a 2-3 record doesnt neccesarily eliminate you from playoff contention in our league after all :-)
Phoenix, BTW, also came up from Division Two - and they have 3 wins already this year. They have beaten St Louis and Rogers Park - both past champions of Division One, who have been in Division One their entire history. And Phoenix actually only lost to United (last years semifinalists) by 15 runs, and even managed to bowl Pak Gym out for 150 before losing, which is really a pretty creditable performance for a new team in Division One against the rampaging powerhouses.
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Second thing - Milwaukee United languished in Div 2 for so many years. If you look at the record, they always were in the top 4 in div 2 in the last five years. The reason Milwaukee United did well last year in Div 1 is not because it got 'LOT OF NEW PLAYERS' . The same div 2 team a year before qualified for Div 1 play offs and went as far as Div 1 Semis (being a Div 2 team)beating top Div 1 teams. Please look at the score cards and rosters to find out for yourself.
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Milwaukee United is a good example, actually. In 2003 they had 9 wins in Division Two. In 2004 they had 10 wins in Division Two. In 2005 they came to Division One... and had 10 wins in Division One. Not exactly what youd call a big drop-off in performance when they moved up!
Teams change every year - Milwaukee United picked up 3 or 4 new players last year, its true, but they had also lost their best bowler and their most consistent batsman from the previous year. Overall they may have been a bit stronger, but it wasnt a huge change - most of their roster has been the same for a good 4 or 5 years. And besides, as you point out above, when Milwaukee United was still a Division Two team, they came into the Division One playoffs (in 2004) and upset both St Louis Kutis and Wildcats in those playoffs, going all the way to the Division One semifinals before losing to the Challengers!
This year Milwaukee United has again lost their best bowler from last year (Jassi), but so far this season their performance hasnt been any worse.
This is one reason I think it may not be a bad idea to still have that "2 Div2 teams moving to Div1 playoffs in the same season" format that we used to. That way we can see how Div2 is competing against Div1 head to head. Its sad that that format had to be abandoned right after a Div2 team had beaten a Div1 playoff team for the first time ever in our league. Not to say this would happen often - Div1 is still obviously the stronger division, and so the above would happen quite rarely - but it would still be quite interesting to see how it played out on the cricket field.
Also, BTW, 20-20 is hardly the right forum to compare Div1 and Div2 teams - it is a whole different ballgame. Very probably all of Phoenix, Milwaukee United and/or Purdue may do poorly in 20-20, but much better in the 40 or 45 over game. This is mostly because, IMHO, they are generally younger and fitter than many teams in Div1 - and the longer a game is, the more their fitness and running between wickets has a chance to have an impact. 20-20 never really brings fitness into play at all (except in LA, when youre playing two 20-20 games back to back on consecutive days in intense heat - which physically hurt a lot of our players even this season, since nobody is used to going through that sort of physical strain; it contributed a fair bit to our lowered performance on Day2 in LA, in my opinion).
Sadiq
yes that would be great to bring back the format of involving div II teams into playoffs against div I. it's a bit of suprising why we stopped it all of a sudden? hmmm let me guess :)
BTW Sadiq, we would love to hear your toughts on naming few best fielders and keepers we have in the league :)
bringing back the playoff format involving division II teams into the playoffs against division I teams is a good idea, but this would be extremely hard to schedule since the Division I playoffs would have to start after the Division II playoffs. Secondly, it is a bit unfair for the division I teams to be knocked out by a team that really has nothing to lose. I am not saying that Division II don't deserve a shot at the title, its just that it would be unfair and it would take the value out of the Division II title.
I must say that both of last years Division II teams definately deserve a spot in the Division I league. If given the opportunity both Phoenix CC and Purdue CC would have done well in the Division I playoffs. Not to forget IIT, who also lost a heartbreaker to Phoenix in the semi-finals after having a great regular reason where they finished 1st ahead of both Phoenix and Purdue. I wouldn't have been surprised if one of these teams, especially last years Purdue team upset some of our top guns in Division I.
That said, I must also stress that Division II is not even close to being as competitive as Division I. Agreed, the top 6-8 teams of Division II are extremely competitive, some of them are most definately better than a few of our teams in Division I. But if you look at the overall strength of division II it is considerably weaker than Division I.
I would suggest that we should probably move the bottom four teams from division I to division II. This would motivate all the teams from both divisions to perform better.
And we should probably expand our Division III league a bit more. I can see atleast 6-7 teams from Divison II that will be better off playing 30-30 rather than our regular 40 over games. That would be best for our league and it would also make Division II a lot more competitive.
"I can see atleast 6-7 teams from Divison II that will be better off playing 30-30 rather than our regular 40 over games. That would be best for our league and it would also make Division II a lot more competitive. "
Are you refering to the team Sath scored 223* against? ;) poor chaps... such games often take place in Div. 2 and new records are made from time to time because div. 2 has some really strong teams and then some really weak ones. That is because div. 2 is open to anyone who wants to enter a team which brings down the level of competition. I would suggest demoting the bottom 10 teams of div. 2 to the 30-30 league.
I would also suggest that the bottom 4 teams from div. 1 be demoted to div. 2 and the top 4 from div. 2 (the semi-finalists) be promoted to div. 1 at the end of every season in order to keep both leagues competitive.
"I would also suggest that the bottom 4 teams from div. 1 be demoted to div. 2 and the top 4 from div. 2 (the semi-finalists) be promoted to div. 1 at the end of every season in order to keep both leagues competitive."
Excellent suggestion. Also move the last 6-8 teams to division III. Normally what has been happening that the last spotted teams during the end of the season or mid season, starts giving walk overs & it brings down the moral of the game.
If Phoenix or Perdue make it to the playoffs this year, watch out div I, for some major upsets!!!!
I am not sure if anybody has noticed, but i want to bring to management's attention.
In DIV 2, team Rockers have given walkover all matches except the first game. Also, i see that they are participating in the 30-30 division. I am not sure if both are same teams or not, but whichever team has Rockers in playing Schedule for sure gets 4 points if Rockers have already decided not to play in DIV2.
This is unfair to other teams incase playoffs depends on crucial points.
As i had suggested earlier (anonymous 10:59) :) we should probably have move more teams around the three divisions to keep the games more competitive.
The situation with the Rockers is unfortunate. But more than likely, they would have lost all their games had they played n e ways.
I hope management doesnt mind us giving them all these suggestions. They have done a great job with our league and I think its great that they've created these 'blogs'. It gives everyone a chance to share their views, suggestions and frustration :)
Amit
"If Phoenix or Perdue make it to the playoffs this year, watch out div I, for some major upsets!!!! "
Let see,Phoenix got all-out for 88 against Pak Gymkhana, and Pak Gymkhana scored 275 against Purdue. I wonder if Pak Gymkhana would really be "watching out" for either of these teams.
have not seen many games in div I so can't say much about who's the best keeper
In Division II, keepers from No Stars & Chicago giants (Shashi Buluswar) are pretty good, specially Shashi's concentration & commitment.
We're watching out for everyone after losing last year's final having scored 306. Phoenix did well to get 88 (ask Milwaukee .. 24 a.o. n all). But cricket is the game of uncertainties - on a given day anyone can beat anyone.
-Raheel.
Interestingly enough, Phoenix has ran us the closest in 7 matches, rest of the teams we have beaten by even bigger margins.
Muslim - 92 runs
Phoenix - 65 runs
Wildcats - 81 runs
Purdue - 104 runs
Milwaukee - 129 runs (After scoring 153!)
Bears - 95 runs
Rogers Park - 90 runs
Also we have batted first in all 7 matches, I think we've won 4 tosses and 3 teams have invited us to bat first.
-R
Besides Pak Gym, two other teams, Challengers and Milwaukee United are unbeaten as well... St. Louis CC has also been in very good form so far.
I am looking forward to Pak gym's encounter with those three teams.
"Besides Pak Gym, two other teams, Challengers and Milwaukee United are unbeaten as well... St. Louis CC has also been in very good form so far.
I am looking forward to Pak gym's encounter with those three teams."
I think all those matches are in consecutive weeks - talk about scheduling!
Raheel,
from your previous comment it looks as though you aren't really praising Phoenix, just braging about how well your team has done. Anyways, Pak Gymkhana is a hell of a team and you have every right in the world to talk like that. Just make sure you guys back up all this talk in the playoffs :)
peace
Amit
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Anon said:
bringing back the playoff format involving division II teams into the playoffs against division I teams is a good idea, but this would be extremely hard to schedule since the Division I playoffs would have to start after the Division II playoffs.
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This is true - and this is why it was abandoned I think. It doesnt have to start *after* the playoffs neccessarily - but the first 2 teams of Div2 have to be decided already. It basically delays everything by a week - the format was last used two years ago.
The way it works is:
1st Saturday: Div2, 5-12 play
1st Sunday: Div2, 1-4 vs winners of 5-12 (thus being in the Top 4 gives you a day rest, which makes earning the Top 4 spot important,
as it should be IMHO).
2nd Saturday: Div2 semis
2nd Sunday: Div2 finalists, plus Div1 5-10, play each other to determine Div1 Quarters.
So, what it does is delay the Div1 QF by exactly one week - pushing the whole playoffs one week deeper into October.
Opinions vary on whether this is pushing it too late or not, weather-wise. The other thing is, in a 17-team Division One, do you want 10 teams to make the playoffs, or is 8 a sufficient number? These are the reasons why this format was scrapped probably.
My own personal opinion (which, along with 3-bucks-and-a-quarter will buy you a gallon of gasoline).. I think we should start the season a week earlier, or even 2 weeks earlier. Maybe even play one of the long weekends, if we have to (every team has 1 or 2 bye-weeks in addition to long-weekends anyway; else, have no byes other than long weekends if need be)... and then we can play this format without pushing the season any longer than it currently is. But again, thats purely my opinion... and you know what they say about opinions :-)
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Anon said:
Secondly, it is a bit unfair for the division I teams to be knocked out by a team that really has nothing to lose. I am not saying that Division II don't deserve a shot at the title, its just that it would be unfair and it would take the value out of the Division II title.
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This part I dont agree with at all - what is this "have nothing to lose" bit? Its a playoff, everyone has something to lose! When Milwaukee United came thru the Div2 playoffs into the Div1 playoffs, they didnt play without anything to lose - they were trying to win the entire league, and were probably as disappointed when they lost (in the semis) as anyone else who lost that year in the playoffs. Heck, they ended up playing the Div2 final in a back-to-back game when tired... but they had chosen to have the Div1 semis on Saturday, because they gave it highest priority!
Besides, it isnt like the Div2 teams are being given an advantage anyway - they are the *only* teams who would be playing the Div1 pre-quarters as a back-to-back game, having played the Div2 semis the day before! That is far more of a disadvantage, in my opinion, than any possible advantage provided by "playing without anything to lose".
Sadiq
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Anon 1 said:
"I can see atleast 6-7 teams from Divison II that will be better off playing 30-30 rather than our regular 40 over games. That would be best for our league and it would also make Division II a lot more competitive. "
Anon 2 said:
because div. 2 has some really strong teams and then some really weak ones. That is because div. 2 is open to anyone who wants to enter a team which brings down the level of competition. I would suggest demoting the bottom 10 teams of div. 2 to the 30-30 league.
I would also suggest that the bottom 4 teams from div. 1 be demoted to div. 2 and the top 4 from div. 2 (the semi-finalists) be promoted to div. 1 at the end of every season in order to keep both leagues competitive.
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Hey guys please put your name - or some sort of "handle" if you wish, this Anon1 and Anon2 business is getting difficult :-)
As for the above...
Again, purely my opinion (which, along with 5 bucks, will get you a grande latte frappe with caramel swirl at a speciality barista)...
Our biggest problem is grounds - we dont have enough grounds to go fully to 3 divisions I think, which would entail a huge increase in the number of games. Also, the current 30-30 is not so much a Div3 as it is a completely different tournament - thus anyone can play in it (even Div1 players), and it is based only in Chicagoland with no travel involved etc. It is also a half-day game, thus 2 games are played on a ground in a day. It is a whole different animal.
Now in an ideal world, if we did have enough grounds to make 3 divisions and consequently host a whole lot of more games etc...
again, purely my personal opinion is as follows:
Last year, we had 51 teams, of which about 18 were in Div1 and 33 I think were in Div2? If we had lots of grounds, what we could potentially do:
1) Cut down Div1 to 17 teams, by attrition - an extra demotion one year, after announcing it at the start of the year so everyone knows about it.
2) Look at maybe 3 years worth of "regular season" results in Div2, so as to be completely fair to everyone, looking at consistency and not just 1 bad year etc... and after doing that, split the remaining 34 teams into Div2 and Div3, both containing 17 teams each, with the "cumulative 3 years worth bottom 17 teams" going down to Div3.
3) Start the season 2 weeks earlier, and if neccessary cut down one of the bye weeks, or else play on one long weekend (letting the team choose their long weekend)... and thus, with more time available, go back to the old days of a 16-game schedule. Thus *everyone* in each division plays *everyone else* - no more lucky draws, no more byes where one may escape playing Satha one year (or even two), everyone plays everyone head to head, and *then* the real best teams to go the playoffs. With our weather a couple games are often lost to rain, and there are 14 games to start with, thus you can sometimes get only 12 cricket games all year... and then in Div2 you dont play half the teams, thus leaving too much to chance for the playoffs (a lucky draw and easy strength of schedule enables you to get to the playoffs quite easily sometimes) etc.
4) Because you are taking a single Div2 and splitting it into Div2 and Div3... allow plenty of movement back and forth, plenty of opportunity for upward mobility. Thus, allow 4 teams to be demoted from Div2 to Div3 every year, and 4 teams to be promoted from Div3 to Div2 the same year. In a few years teams will find their own level - and then you can go back to 2-team promotions and relegations if you want to.
5) Iam not so sure myself that changing the Div2 to Div1 promotions to 4 teams is neccesarily a great solution right away. However, this is not hard to fix... lets allow actual play on a cricket field to decide it, rather than anyones opinion of the strengths and weaknesses of Div1 and Div2! Lets allow the first 2 teams to be automatically promoted (and the bottom 2 from Div2 to be automatically demoted), and then, the two semifinalists of Div2 and the 3rd and 4th from bottom teams of Div1 get to play off at the end of the year against each other, with the winners going to Div1 and the losers going to Div2! (In English soccers promotions and demotions, this is a very common phenomenon - a "relegation game" it is called, and it usually provides the most hard-fought and best playoff game of the season!) Last year IIT finished #3 in Div2, and Hoffmann Estates finished 3rd from bottom in Div1... that might have been a heck of a match if they had played each other, to decide who played in Div1 this season! This would also have the added benefit of keeping everyone's intensity level up all year - nobody would want to finish in the Bottom Four in Div1 and risk possible demotion, and so would continue to play very hard even if the playoffs were out of reach (last year, once the playoffs were out of reach, a couple of teams played with only 9 people a few times - that should never happen, if it can be avoided).
(Scheduling this relegation game will actually be quite easy - scheduling extra playoff games are difficult as there is no time and grounds at WP are occupied, and putting Div2 finalists into a Div1 playoff takes an extra week; however, once the playoffs reach semifinal and final stage, only 2 grounds are being occupied at most. Thus 2 grounds are empty on those days for any potential relegation game to be played, making this part actually quite easy for scheduling).
Anyway. All these things are, IMHO, for a utopian world - it all depends on the number of grounds, and if we have the capacity to increase the number of games played each year (and consequently the number of umpires, too ;-) Until we have enough grounds, not much can be done, really.But its still fun to think about the possibilities :-)
Sadiq
Sadiq bhai, I know this might not be possible realistically but shouldn't we 'test' new teams before they enter the MCC? I started playing in 2003 and there were about 16 teams in Div 1 and 20-something in Div 2. Already there are 40+ teams in Div 2 and there's a 30-30 league. With the # of grounds not increasing significantly and the problems with appointing umpires, should we let anyone play who pays the 2-grand entry fee?
-Raheel.
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